Will the E36 BMW M3 ever be a classic?

"n54 & s38" (straight6) 07/31/2014 at 12:33 • Filed to: Discussion, classics.

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After reading about that E30 that sold for $58K this morning, I'm curious about whether you guys think the E36 M3 will ever hit the same heights. I could easily see the E46 becoming collectable in the future (last strictly 2 door, naturally aspirated straight 6) and even the E90, given enough time (only M3 with a V8, probably the last naturally aspirated "analog" M3). But it seems like the E36 isn't viewed in the same light by enthusiasts.

Is it because we got what amounted to a revamped 328i engine here in North America? If that's the case, then will it become more of a collector's car in Europe? I know that the 45 or so Euro-spec E36 M3s that were imported into Canada still retain their value pretty well here (they were also all Individual cars, spec'd to the buyer's taste). But I'm curious about the regular, North American-spec E36 M3.

As someone pointed out on the E30 post, maybe it's because of the proliferation of fake, rebadged "M3s" that you see which are nothing more than a 328i in drag. Or maybe it's the large production numbers and longer period of production compared to the E30.

Just curious about your thoughts, Oppo? Does anyone think that these might be viewed differently or revered as a collectible classic in the future? I've heard/read from several sources that the E36 has the sweetest handling out of any generation of M3.

Plus, tell me that this doesn't look fucking hot:

Reigntastic > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 12:35

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Never like the E30, but yes, it will appreciate eventually. The E36 wasn't very popular when it was released stateside, it won't have the same nostalgia for it driving used prices. It's a pretty handsome car, I think it has already aged well.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 12:36

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Yes, eventually.

trmoore09 > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 12:37

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I think good condition, fairly low mileage examples will command a premium in the future, but not e30 or e46 money.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 12:41

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I hope not. I still have a while before I can buy one, and i'd prefer it'd be cheap.

Montalvo > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 12:44

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NO! IT WON'T! IT WILL ALWAYS BE WORTHLESS AND NEVER APPRECIATE! (Don't want people looking at these until I get my pick of the nicest ones still out there)

Seriously though, it will at some point, eventually all the poorly maintained ones will disappear and only the cream of the crop will remain. The people who love the mixture of 90's styling will fight with their wallets for them.

n54 & s38 > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 12:44

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In terms of collectability, I'm sure that in Europe, the manual cars will be much more desirable than the first generation SMG-equipped cars.

Spaze > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 12:50

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I don't think it will have the cult following that the E30 M3 has... possibly because there were a million of them made.

newton > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 12:55

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Any M3 in a desirable color combo with certain options (sunroof delete, cloth seats etc.) will be collectible in the future.

I still think E36s are very good looking cars, despite the American S52 motor.

n54 & s38 > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 12:57

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I gotta buy one of these now that this post is up. I really wonder their value will be in 5 years?

colorfulyawn > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 12:59

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Well, there were 4-door E36 M3s, so I wouldn't say strictly 2-door.

But I think these cars will eventually become appreciated. I've always preferred the driving dynamics of the E36 chassis over the E46, and I think more people will slowly come around to that view. And really, what's to stop anyone from dropping in a later S54 and having something very similar to what the European-spec E36 was?

I'm not sure that any M3 will ever be as collectible as the E30, though. Those cars were produced in much smaller numbers, and the way they were built was more labor intensive. E30 M3s weren't just another trim line in the 3-Series back then, the way they have been ever since the E36.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 13:06

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Don't say these things. I'm looking at them. Well an E36 3-series but still.

n54 & s38 > colorfulyawn 07/31/2014 at 13:08

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Yup, my point about the strictly 2-door was referring to the E46 actually. What do you prefer about the dynamics of the E36 vs E46? I remember how much C & D loved it. An E36 M3 acually beat out the Viper, Corvette, 911, NSX, etc. for best handling car in America for over $30,000.

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colorfulyawn > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 13:12

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The E46 felt less balanced and more prone to understeer than the E36, at least in my hands. The E36 always felt like it was making better use of its contact patches. By comparison, the E46 felt longer and narrower. It's hard to describe, but behind the wheel the E36 didn't require as much concentration. It just did what I wanted it to do.

That said, I always thought CD was insane for picking the M3 over the NSX. The NSX was in a whole different league. Not as forgiving as the M3, but much, much sharper.

n54 & s38 > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 13:17

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Dammit. Now I'm checking classified ads and just found 3 near me for under $8K. Sigh, I have a classic BMW problem...

n54 & s38 > colorfulyawn 07/31/2014 at 13:18

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Yeah, that's pretty much what C&D said too. More neutral, less understeer-y than the E46.

Sn210 > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 13:18

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Not as much, it really doesn't have the "accolades" the others do. The e30 was the first, the e46 was the last n/a 6, the e90 got a v8...

The LTW's will definitely appreciate. I fully agree with M5 Goes Round the Outside's comment that as the modded, beaten e36's die off, the unmolested, clean examples will command a premium. Whether that premium is $68k, idk.

There was one guy on my local autotrader that was trying to sell a 2k mile Estoril blue e36 m3 for $35k for ever!

Chteelers > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 13:21

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Bought one about 8 years ago cause it was my dream car as a kid. It was fun for a while, but ultimately it fulfilled the saying to "never meet your heros.'" That car was a maintenance nightmare - constantly in the shop and expensive to fix. I sold it after owning it just 6 months. I think it's a great car when it's working, but I don't think it will be a classic. Classics tend to be unique cars, which the E30 definitely was, with all it's bespoke components and body; it was a completely different car than the standard E30. But this was just a regular E36, with a bigger engine and LSD. Unlike the E30, it didn't get all kinds of race-ready suspension, brakes, and steering, just 'sportier' stuff. And the body was the same as the standard E36, with a relatively mild body kit. Yeah, it's still looks fantastic, but most of that is because the standard E36 looked so good to start with. Just my opinion as a former owner.

TL;DR Great car, but not a future classic.

RallyWrench > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 13:22

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I don't see the US cars becoming really collectible, because there's too damn many of them, and they don't have the ITBs of the Euro S52. They're great cars, and good ones are getting increasingly hard to find so those may appreciate a bit, but not collectible. The Lightweight, on the other hand, is and will remain collectible.

E92M3 > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 13:32

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I don't think they ever will. The E46 will be the next E30. I wish I had kept mine sometimes.

DylanToback > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 13:35

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I have wondered the same thing. I think the biggest issue is the significantly higher quantity. That being said, they are cheap enough that most of them are abused or destroyed by rust. So the number of clean ones is certainly decreasing. Only time will tell.

I will say, I have an e36 328is, and as a driving experience, I prefer it to nearly all new BMW's. It is obviously slower, but it has more than enough power to have fun.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 13:36

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A clean, unmodified one will eventually command a premium, for the simple fact that there won't be many left. E36s seem to be a very good platform for a track build: cheap, light, RWD. Many have had engine swaps and lots of other mods done, so finding a well-kept original will be more of a challenge going forward.

BKRM3 > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 13:37

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I think the car can be a classic without necessarily being collectible. It's a part of BMW's history and it will always have a place among enthusiasts. I don't see them going for 60 grand at auction though, unless flat-brimmed assholes keep buying and ruining them and there get to be only like 10 decent examples left in this country.

All of that aside, I can tell you that ONE version of it already is both a classic and collectible (and lucky me got to ride in one - with an S50B32 swap!! - on track at Summit Point last weekend):

The LTW is trading hands in private sales for $50k+ already. I could see them going for double that in the not-so-distant future.

n54 & s38 > BKRM3 07/31/2014 at 13:39

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Nice! Yeah, there are a lot of them that have just been destroyed by douchebags. Or "modified" to the point where I'd be embarassed just to sit in it.

TotallyThatStupid > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 13:57

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I would think Yes. Certainly they made a lot of them, but as we're seeing with the E30, finding a clean, stock example going forward is going to get harder and harder. People modify the becheezus out of these things; maybe 5-10 years down the road, stock examples may command a premium. Especially the 1995 (more "pure" driving experience) and the 1999 (last ones) 5-speed coupes.

Jagvar > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 14:08

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Special Editions like the M3 Lightweight will achieve collector status.

n54 & s38 > Jagvar 07/31/2014 at 14:12

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Yeah, that's true. Were those imported into North America? If so, in what numbers? I agree, as I said, the 45 or so Euro-Spec models that were imported into Canada in 1994 have all held their value well.

Jagvar > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 14:23

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All of the BMW Lightweights were imported to North America, in fact. They were all Alpine White. BMW originally planned to produce 85, but final production totaled around 120 (the exact number has proved impossible to pin down).

Later special editions were:

M3 GT coupe (Europe only): British Racing Green, 356 LHD, 50 RHD models produced

M3 GT2 (Europe only): Imola Red, 200 LHD, 50 RHD models produced

M3-R (Australia only): Alpina White, 15 produced

TheCraigy > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 14:48

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Done right they can look great. Most of them I see look like shit, which is because prices fell so low that any 16 year old with a job at Subway could buy one. And then there's the simple fact that they've been around so long it's hard to find one with low miles that isn't completely used up.

A well kept original car will always IMO be classic and look great. I would be as interested in it as an E30.

However as far as significantly appreciating there's just no way. They made like fifty billion of them. At this point (rock bottom) they should probably hold their value or keep up with inflation, but investment wise it's just not there, especially on the US spec cars.

mfennell > n54 & s38 07/31/2014 at 15:54

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The first time my DAD, who was never really a car guy (Vegas and Pintos and Omnis, oh my), drove my E36 M3 back in the day, his response was "this is amazing, just unbelievable". 15 years later, he has an E46 Touring and a Z3.

The steering really WAS unbelievable. I can vividly recall the first time I drove it in the rain and felt the pavement change (from new to old or whatever) through my fingers.

That said, I'm not sure it's really going to be a classic in the sense of the E30 M3. It's not that "special" - few unique parts.

mfennell > BKRM3 07/31/2014 at 15:56

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I vaguely remember that those cars got a bad rap because a magazine tested a weak example but common wisdom was that the production cars actually got hand-picked, extra hot motors.

n54 & s38 > mfennell 07/31/2014 at 16:00

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I've read that the steering IS sublime. Like brail to your fingertips about the road surface.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Chteelers 07/31/2014 at 16:14

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The E36 M3 did have different suspension compared to the non M3's

BKRM3 > mfennell 07/31/2014 at 16:34

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No idea. The one I rode in had the euro spec S50B32, making about 310hp - quite a bump over the E36's US spec 240hp S50. Never actually ridden in a "regular" E36 M3. Spoiled, I guess =)

n54 & s38 > mfennell 07/31/2014 at 23:05

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Yeah BMW admitted as much. They hand picked the hottest motors off the standard production line

Color-Commentary > Reigntastic 08/01/2014 at 03:41

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Hm. The problem with the E36 is that they were *too* popular in the U.S. BMW imported about twice as many E36 M3s in 1995 *alone* as the total US importation of the E30 M3. Scarcity drives prices up. Having said that, the E36 is a nicer car to live with and more fun to drive in about 90% of conditions versus the E30.

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mfennell > BKRM3 08/01/2014 at 09:11

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Nice. I got a ride in an E30 M3 with one of the euro 6 cylinders (my brain doesn't retain BMW engine nomenclature) and it was a riot.

BKRM3 > mfennell 08/01/2014 at 09:20

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I love everything about the E30, whether M3 or not. Never been in a swapped one, but I can imagine! The E30 is so light and nimble. They're like really loud gokarts compared to my 3700lb E90. A friend from the BMW club is selling a nicely sorted E30 track car that I really should buy so I can stop tracking my car...but, as always, there's nowhere to put it. It's such a challenge to live in a densely populated area and maintain a race car hobby. I think that qualifies as a first world problem.

Color-Commentary > mfennell 08/01/2014 at 10:17

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I've got one, and yes, the steering is really special. The car has an uncanny ability to be stable in turns and not bite you, while still giving you lots of options to rotate the car and make quick transitions. It also has great suspension compliance, so it maintains grip over bumpy pavement. Of all the cars I've owned, my E36 M3 is probably the easiest car to drive fast point-to-point on public roads. Yes, even more so than a Miata. It will stay in the family as long as I've got room to keep it.

The E46 does not handle quite as well, IMHO - the front end washes out much earlier (although you can deal with that with wheel/tire choices) and you feel the added weight in transitions.

PardonMyFlemish16 > n54 & s38 08/02/2014 at 10:48

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They are dirt cheap in Europe. I mean a good one goes for like the equivalent of $7K there.

It's still my dream to put a VQ35 in an E36. Twin turbo. One day...

Dietz Piech > n54 & s38 07/28/2016 at 18:25

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The E36 M3 sedan will be one of the most sought after cars of the M line in time. Very low production numbers worldwide. Even lower if you look at the manuals only. With low production numbers & simplicity the diy’er can appreciate you have a combo for the next classic.